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Nick: How’s the market feeling? Talk to me about the whole economy, how it’s working – is it feeling like it’s getting better?

Danielle: It is, definitely, yep. We’re seeing good open home attendees. People are excited to be back in the market again which is great for the market in general. We’re loving it, we’re excited to do open homes, we’re getting people there moving units which is fantastic. A few months ago we didn’t really have that movement, whereas now there’s a lot of competition out there with buyers.

Nick: What’s a good open home? 50, 60, 20 people?

Alexia: Anything in double digits is great.

Nick: OK, so the days of them lining up for good buys are not there anymore?

Alexia: Well, interestingly enough, the first open homes that we ran were in the last week of January and we had 20 and 18 groups through, but at lower price points – these are the properties around that $795 Buyer Enquiry. So, you’re really getting those first home buyers through those properties.

Danielle: You’re getting a lot more for your money now than you were sort of four years ago.

Nick: Are you, though? In the Wellington region, can you buy something really good for 850-900 now or is it still one million?

Danielle: Absolutely, you can. I bought out in Paparangi in 2021 and that was up against 22 offers. I paid $950 for that, and now closer to town, you’d be getting something much better for that money.

Nick: That’s a great example. So, those people who have paid one million dollars out in Wainuiomata, all those sorts of areas, what do they do now when they know they can’t get anywhere near that money?

Danielle: You just have to sit tight, buckle up.

Nick: Does it ever concern you? Do you ever look at yourself and say, god, if I’d only waited a bit longer I’d… you know?

Danielle: Oh, definitely. I think there is a concern factor to it, but I think you’ve just got to focus on the now – focus on those interest rates dropping or getting a little bit more stable. Just go with that and hold on.

Nick: Alexia, what’s your guts about interest rates, because I’ve heard Mike Hosking say: oh you know people he’s talking to are going to re-do their finance and it’s not going to make any difference. Do you think they’re going to go up again?

Alexia: Well, interesting enough, we deal with mortgage advisers and the mortgage advisers are telling us they don’t believe there’s going to be huge increase if there is going to be one at all, but by the end of the year, you may be looking at around 5% for interest rates and at the moment they’re in the fours. So, when Danielle purchased at the height of the market, her interest rate was like 2 and a half and then she went right up to 7. 

Nick: How did she go up, you didn’t fix?

Danielle: No, I fixed for a year – silly.

Alexia: Unfortunately, I think she might have asked her mother for advice on that one.

Nick: How in the world did you not fix for longer at 2 and half percent?

Danielle: I mean, first home buyers. Back then I was a builder, so wages weren’t incredible. So, you’re just locking into your cheapest option for getting into your first house at quite a large price bracket. That’s what was attractive to us, then – being at 2.5% for a year, thinking oh, we’ll just sort it out later, but of course – you know.

Alexia: And they’ve completely renovated their property, so they’ve done the whole thing on it – kitchen, bathroom. 

Nick: You’ve done it – as a builder yourself?

Danielle: Yes

Nick: Incredible, great story. I want to ask you about that. I’m going to take a break, but I want to ask you about that because someone rang in this morning – we were talking about university degrees and how important it is. His daughter wants to be a plumber, but can’t get someone to take her on because she’s a female and you’re a female builder – not very many of them around is there? 

Danielle: No. A lot more now than when I first started – I worked alongside one other, but there weren’t many at all, yeah.

Nick: Right, yeah interesting, because I had a female electrician do up my restaurant and she was the head electrician on that job and she was incredible. Business Hour – we’re talking to Mother and Daughter Real Estate Agents – Danielle was a builder…went into the family business… Tell me about the family business – how does it work? How many arguments do you have? 

Danielle: Haha, you can answer that.

Alexia: No, I wouldn’t say that we have arguments, but it’s a 24/7 job, it’s just non-stop. So, you know, I hear you saying just before we came on saying “mother, daughter – who gets the worst part of it,” and I think Danielle probably does because I’ll probably be the one firing everything at her because she’s incredibly capable. And what would take her 30 seconds on the computer, I’ll still be there five minutes later, still uploading something and putting it into a property file etcetera. So, she does get a lot put on her, but she’s extremely great with buyers and I think going through the market herself – she purchased and bought off the plans and then sold and then that allowed her to go and buy something when she was up against 22 offers. So, when she’s working with first home buyers – she’s been there, she knows what it’s like. 

Nick: But that doesn’t tell me, you know… Danielle, you feel like you’re the gopher in the organisation. Because, you know, I work in a family business and I can tell you, well at least one of my sons would tell me all the time: “Stop telling me what to do!”

Danielle: Oh, there can be a bit of that, definitely. We wouldn’t be human if there wasn’t any of that.

Nick: Do you feel at all that you can’t be yourself?

Danielle: Not at all.

Nick: Because you’re established, you’re a well-known, respected veteran real estate agent – that’s tough for a daughter to come in alongside that isn’t it?

Danielle: I wouldn’t say it’s tough. I feel like we definitely bounce off each other – we have quite a lot of fun and that makes it very easy. Even when I wasn’t in real estate – because you know, as Alexia said – it’s a 24/7 job – your Mum’s coming home and she’s still talking about real estate. So. I’ve always kind of been around it which sort of helped that transition when getting into the business.  

Nick: Interesting you said Alexia – do you call her Alexia or Mum?

Danielle: Oh, it chops and changes. If we’re sitting in a presentation, it’s normally Alexia. 

Nick: You seem remarkably relaxed together. That surprises me a little bit. 

Danielle: Well, she is my Mum. 

Nick: Well, you know what I mean – we’re talking business. In business, you’re on a knife’s edge – you’ve got people committing to big money – trying to borrow big money – stressful stuff. 

Alexia: I think the thing is we respect each other and we really want the best for our vendors. And Danielle’s been doing it a wee while now, she’s not just a few months in, so she’s got a reputation herself. Even Tommy’s agents when she first started were like, “oh my goodness, your daughter – she’s incredible”. Because at Tommy’s you can sell other agents properties – so she would be getting fantastic offers on other agents properties and they’d say, “wow, Danielle’s fantastic”. But she had a couple who contacted her and said “we like the fact you’re a builder”. Danielle went up and did the appraisal – she didn’t need me at all. We go and present together because we are a team – so we do open homes together and they made it very clear that when Danielle got them a fantastic price that they were to ensure that we give Danielle the reference here – “she was the one we chose, not you”. 

Nick: Danielle, what percentage of people turn up, (when you advertise an open home) what percentage of people turn up with pre-arranged finance, pre-arranged insurance, pre-arranged everything – ready to buy. Against what percentage turn up just to have a little nosey? Both my properties that I’ve bought in the last twenty years – I’ve just gone to an open home to have a nosey and ended up buying.

Danielle: Yeah, I’d say about 70%. We have people coming in, of course you know, neighbours across the road and all that sort of thing. But buyers who are actively looking, they’re ready – they want to be able to jump on to something and offer without having to muck around. And especially because we run a process of Tender if not sold prior, so a deadline can be brought forward – for that you need to be unconditional and a good amount above the buyer enquiry. That means you need to act fast, so having all of those things arranged will put you in the best position. 

12:59: So, that’s the 70%. The 30% have no idea where they’re going to get their money from. How hard, or how difficult is it, Alexia, for people to find the money? I’ll ask you as I’ve asked other agents – how much of it is second-tier against banking stuff, I mean maybe you’re in a different market? 

Alexia: No, I think the banks have definitely relaxed. We’ve had a couple recently where the properties have needed intensive work, there’s been delayed maintenance and the banks have been strict on that, so they’ve said, “we don’t want to fund you because we don’t believe you’re going to have the funds to go and do the work that needs to be done”. That’s where we’ve seen some push back from the banks, otherwise they tend to be really good. But you do need a really good mortgage adviser – so we deal with business partners that we partner with and so I just had somebody come in on Sunday and they absolutely loved the property and the tender closes on Tuesday. And they said, “oh, we’ve just started looking,” and I said “have you got your pre-approval? No I haven’t even started, they said, “well what was your plan – were you going to go to the bank?” And they said “yep, we’re going to go to the bank”. I said, “well here’s a contact,” I gave it straight there to them in the open home – here’s a mortgage adviser that you’re going to call – you need to go to them. They will go to all the different banks and they will be able to assist you – and they’re creative. They will do everything they can to get funding for that client. 

Nick: How many deals, Danielle, fall over because they can’t get finance?

Danielle: Not on our watch. No, there are a couple that do fall over, due to what Alexia said, with banks saying, look, you know, you can’t put money into this property and all of that sort of thing if they need a new roof or that sort of thing. But we are very good at not taking no for an answer, we do push it as far as we can until we have to let it go, but we are in a job where you have to be able to handle rejections.

Nick: No one handles rejections. 

Danielle: And it’s the lower price properties – you know the properties around the 500-600 that the banks are pushing back on, going, “you need to do those piles or there’s one pile that’s on a slight lean – you need to have that done immediately”. 

Nick: What is the vibe like, I mean we’re in an election year. Does that make any difference? I heard someone on Q&A saying yesterday that they were terrified that everything is going to hold until next election because things are going to change. People like that, when they buy property, are they thinking, “shivers, I’m not sure if I can keep my job – shall I wait until the election so I’ve got some security?”

Alexia: Look, I think the whole job thing in Wellington has been tough. There have been job cuts absolutely and we certainly had situations where we had clients that we’d be looking after, and they’d say, “hey look, I’m just going to sit on the fence”. Even my girlfriend was going off to Europe and she was a contractor, and she said, “Oh I’m not going now, because I’m not sure if I’m going to be renewed”. But she went and got another job within two weeks of the other job. So, it gets to a point where people start to say, “right, we are gonna jump on”. It is a good market to get in the market – we obviously had a huge rise in the price of properties, like when Danielle purchased and then the market’s dipped and now it’s very stable, so it will start to correct itself, so if people don’t get in the market now, they will find that prices start going up. 

Nick: Danielle, what do you say to the people that have lost their job, that are panicking, that are calling you up saying, “look, I’ve got my family home, but I’ve got no job and I don’t want to have the banks foreclose on me, so I have to sell”. Have we had any of those? Is that a reality in Wellington at the moment?

Danielle: We personally haven’t.

Alexia: But other agents in the office have and I can tell you those agents, you know, wear their heart on their sleeve and have sleepless nights over those properties because they want to get the best they possibly can for those vendors. 

Nick: So, it is a reality in Wellington right now?

Alexia: It has been a reality, yep absolutely. 

Nick: It’s not talked about is it? It’s talked about, you know, losing your job, but losing your family home – that’s like a marriage break up really, isn’t it? 

Alexia: It’s tough and that was happening at the end of last year, we haven’t come across any this year. There’s been the odd mortgagee sale, but nothing like how it was back in the day – you know, we’ve heard of, “gosh, banks would do that a lot more often than they do now”. But yeah, we certainly have had situations and the agents will talk about it to all the Tommy’s agents, saying, “look, can someone please look outside the square – try and find me a buyer for this house – these people are really hurting”. And we do everything we can, and it’s about getting them the right price so they can move on to whatever step that may be. 

Nick: Any surprising areas that are the next little “in” area, that you could still buy a little bit cheaper, but you know, you’ve got this gut feeling that it’s going to be the next “in” place?

Alexia: In terms of location?

Nick: Yeah. 

Alexia: People still like city fringe locations, you can’t really go wrong. Your Brooklyn, Newtown, and TradeMe tell us that Island Bay is one of their most searched location names in their searches for property. People will still like those locations. From a price point perspective, if you jump in there now, we think it can only improve. 

Nick: I drove through Brooklyn yesterday and I said to myself, “I would never look at Brooklyn, ever”. I don’t know, there’s something about Brooklyn that I would never look at, but why is Brooklyn so popular? Because you know, it’s just a walk up the hill and you’re in town.

Alexia: Well, we certainly wouldn’t be telling our agent who looks after Brooklyn that it’s not popular because she’s extremely successful in that suburb. 

Nick: For sure, there’s a lot of houses up there. I’m talking about “in” suburbs. 

Alexia: Well people love, you know, you’ve got the cinemas, you’ve got the cafes, you’ve got the best Indian I’m told, so yeah. 

Nick: See, 5, 10 years ago Lyall Bay wasn’t an “in” suburb. You know, you wouldn’t buy in Lyall Bay 10 years ago. 15 years ago, maybe. But now it’s hotter than hot. You know, we met up briefly on New Years eve and both of you had a crack at me for something I said on the show. 

Alexia: (laughing)

Danielle: Haha, I don’t think it was me. 

Nick: Well, you were holding your Mum back at one stage, she was having a right old crack at me! About Insurance. You know, we did a big deal about how hard it was to get insurance, now it’s changed – there’s part of New Zealand that companies are saying they’re not even going to go near. There was talk that Petone was going to be one of those. But you said, it’s absolute BS and you’ve never lost a deal because of insurance. 

Alexia: And that’s 100% correct. But because I deal with business partners and a fantastic insurance adviser who absolutely knows their stuff. So, I’ve had properties where there might be some rewiring that wasn’t done in a room and you know, from an insurance perspective, you’ve gotta say if it’s been rewired – is there scrim etc? So, the insurer might say, no, I’m not going to insure it. But an insurance adviser or broker will go, “well actually it’s only that room – why can’t you insure the rest of the house?” Let the buyer move in, let them do their wiring and then as soon as it’s done – insure. So, they’ll get insurance for the house – they can settle on the house. They go and do their rewiring in that room – they go back to the insurance company and say it’s all done and now they’ve got full house insurance. 

Nick: What about the cost of insurance?

Alexia: So, premiums have gone up, but they seem to be quite stable at the moment – they haven’t increased from where they were, say a year ago – they seem to be pretty stable. 

Danielle: And buyers are factoring that into their budget as well. 

Nick: So, you haven’t had a situation, Danielle, where someone said, “I love this house, and yes I can afford it, but you know, when I combine the rates and insurance, it’s too expensive?” 

Danielle: No.

Nick: No one?

Danielle: No. 

Nick: Wow. 

Alexia: And the thing is too, you know we call our buyers back after open homes, so we have really good conversations with them. So, if someone says, “look, we absolutely love the property”. Let’s say our Lyall Bay property, they say, “we absolutely love it, but what’s the insurance premium?” We’ve got all that information on hand – we’ve given them that information. So, a lot of people can transfer the existing insurance over to them. So, they go to the current insurance company and go, “I’m buying this property – you know everything about it.” So, buyers shouldn’t have to be filling in forms going, has it been rewired? Yes or no. Is there scrim? All that sort of thing – we should know that as agents and it’s up to us to assist them. 

Nick: So, you both can look me straight in the eye and say, “insurance is not an issue with buying and selling property in the capital”?

Danielle: Of course, it’s harder to get, yes, but we’ve never had it as an issue. 

Nick: Right. But it is harder to get than it was?

Danielle: Yup. 

Alexia: It can be. Depending on the location and the age of the house as well. I mean, obviously, if you’ve got a nice, double-glazed little unit and everything – it’s not an issue. If you’ve got an older property there will be a lot more questions that are asked, but we have builders’ reports that the insurance companies can see and so, you know, they’ve got everything that they need. 

Nick: How often, Danielle. And I’ll ask you as well, Alexia, because you’ll probably have a wider range because of history. How often do you get people that actually say, “Oh I’m buying this property and I’m not going to insure it??

Danielle: I’ve never had anyone do that – no. 

Alexia: I haven’t either. 

Nick: Wow, that’s interesting. Danielle, I’m going to ask you because you’re young. Tell me, what percentage of people are now under 40 looking at properties – I mean, you know, in my day, your dream, the first thing you ever did was buy your property. It feels like it’s changed, to me now. 

Danielle: Yeah, I think there’s a little bit of that. People do sit and wait and rent, and watch market trends and figure out where they want to buy before rushing in somewhere like myself in 2021. 

Nick: You’ve gotta get over it haha. 

Danielle: Haha can you tell I’m bitter? (Laughing)

Nick: Haha, can I spend half an hour with you after the show? 

Danielle: I need some counselling or something, yeah. I’ll get over it one day, maybe when I sell it. 

Nick: As long as you get over $950 for it. 

Danielle: Exactly. But you know, first home buyers, they’ve got all the material there now to make really good, informed decisions and I think that’s definitely helped and bring a lot of confidence to them in the market. 

Nick: So, first home buyers – there’s a lot of talk about first buyers, is it real?

Alexia: It is real. I wish I had some stats for you on how many are first, versus downsizers etc. Interesting enough, when Danielle and I were having a chat about coming on… Mid-last year, we had 22 listings, not one of those vendors were staying in Wellington. Not one of them, they were all – some were going to Otago, Melbourne – everyone was leaving and that’s when we really went, oh my gosh, you know. 

Nick: You didn’t have a single listing of someone selling and moving up or moving down?

Alexia: Correct. Now, that has changed, really changed. We’re running 27 listings at the moment and we’re in a chain of events of people buying. The first home buyer has kicked it off, that person’s sold and bought the other person’s property – that person’s gone and bought another – so the chain of four. That wasn’t happening in the middle of last year.

Nick: How much of that Danielle, do you put down to the fact there’s been a change of council – we’ve got a mayor now who we feel more secure with, whether we like him or not – we feel more secure with him – do you reckon that’s got anything to do with it? 

Danielle: Definitely, I think with some fresh faces in the council, there’s an appetite to engage a bit more, definitely. 

Nick: Do you think so too, Alexia?

Alexia: Very much so, yeah. Look, I think there was definitely, last year was challenging for everybody. I think it was a really tough year financially for a lot of people. Emotionally for people and I just think, the council, and the rates and things, it was just another thing on everyone’s backs, but I think people have just sort of dusted themselves off and gone, “hey look, we love Wellington, we’re here “. I don’t know if you’ve been here all your life, but people tend to stay in Wellington – it’s a great vibrant city. 

Nick: But you’ve just told me a story about 21 people moving away. 

Alexia: They were moving last year, but they didn’t have a change of council then. Now we do and I think people’s shift has moved and we’ve gotta give the council a go and see what they can do for the city – it’s a great city, let them do their things and let’s get back to focusing on our lives. That’s what people are doing and we have a lot of people who are either upsizing or downsizing and staying in Wellington. 

Nick: Danielle, I’ve got to ask you; is it hype? Is it social media? Every time you go on social media – which I do reluctantly, it’s all positive stories – it’s all like we’re sold a narrative that all the hard times are behind us. Do you agree that it might be hype and it’s not real? Or do you feel that it is real? 

Danielle: I feel that it’s real, yeah. 

Nick: Is it because you want to believe?

Danielle: Yeah, definitely, it’s all about a positive mindset right? 

Alexia: But it’s also about us not wanting to participate in any negativity. You know, we don’t want to be a part of that – we want to just move forward and do our job for our vendors and get them great prices for properties which is what we’re doing and I think as I said last year, people did have a different mindset. You can certainly see the difference. When we do our open home callbacks, people don’t return your calls – they don’t get back in touch, don’t text you back etc. Now, people are actually picking up the phone and telling us what they want to buy. They’re going, “oh no, that didn’t work for me, but if you’ve got another 3 bed, 2 bathroom in these locations, we’d love to have a look”. 

Nick: Danielle, how much is by phone and how much is by text? I mean, I’ve never thought about this because – what do you do?

Danielle: Yeah, so there’s – the fact my generation hates answering the phone haha. 

Nick: I will not answer the phone unless a name comes up – I won’t answer it. 

Danielle: Yeah, so with Alexia – she does love a phone call, so that’s been drilled into me – call everyone. But I have bought in more over the past couple of years through calling everyone and if that doesn’t work, flick them through a text and you do often get a better response with the text. 

Nick: Why don’t you just text and say, “is it alright if I call – is it convenient if I call?” Because a number comes up and unless they’ve got that number they’re thinking – do I really want to speak to them? Have you got onto texting yet, Alexia?

Alexia: I’m still not a texter. 

Nick: That’s because you want to have a chat. You’re that person that wants to have a chat. 

Alexia: Yeah, I am a chatter, but you also find out more about the person and what they’re looking for than you do on a text. If I go through, because we do what we term ‘a caravan’ where all the agents go and do the new listings – so if I go through one of those listings and go,  “oh that’ll just be perfect for Rachel – it’s just what she was telling me she’s looking for,” I’m not going to get that via a text. 

Nick: No, but you could text her and say, “I’ve found a place, I’ve got it”. 

Alexia: I might text her then and say, “hey, I’ve got the property and let’s have a look”. But on my open home callbacks it’s definitely a voice call. 

Nick: Both of you – AI. I’m a fan of it, I use it. It must be an absolute lifesaver for an agent, Danielle? 

Danielle: We pull snippets of it, for sure. But it also can be a bit of a slippery slope – careful what we’re putting in. 

Nick: But your planning and your timing and all that sort of stuff. It can help you with that, can’t it?

Danielle: Yeah, I haven’t used it that way, but I’ll look into it. 

Nick: Making notes on it, tell me how I can use this. 

Alexia: There’s only so many contemporary kitchens that can be sold throughout Wellington. You go and look at some of the ads and if they’re all AI you’ve gotta put your own mark on these ads as well, you can’t just throw everything into AI and go, hey put an ad out there for me. We’ve been to the property, we know what it’s like, so we can sell it the way it should be. But not saying we don’t use it. 

Nick: I’ll give you both a little hint. I took a photo of the outside of my house and put it into AI and said, I want to repaint my house – it took two minutes and it came up with three beautiful designs, why can’t you take a photo of your kitchen (and you can do this) and say, AI, make this into a wonderful kitchen and just have the photo of it sitting there when people walk in? 

Alexia: Oh, we’ll have to give that whirl. Sounds good to me. 

Nick: Maybe I should be an agent. But taking photos of stuff and getting AI to fix it for you. Someone just text in and said, “Nick, the housing market’s down about 70% on four years ago. Most agents are either struggling or gone”. Your quick response to that is?

Alexia: We’re not saying it’s easy, but we’re saying we do the job and we do it well. 

Nick: It’s not easy. OK, tell me if someone really special comes to town and I know this happened to you, Alexia, only a couple of weeks ago, what would you do with them to show off Wellington? You’re driving to the airport thinking, what am I going to do? 

Alexia: Pick them up, round the bays and down Oriental, up on the cable car, botanical gardens. Scopa for lunch, southern bars of Cuba – few little drinking spots there. I’m not a coffee drinker, so you know, we’ll go and have a wine somewhere and then probably end up at Hummingbird, Nick. 

Nick: That’s very nice of you to say. Come on Danielle, you can get a bit more exciting than that. A special person that you went to school with. A really good friend that left Wellington years ago, you’re picking them up. 

Danielle: Grab a coffee, head up to probably Mount Vic – the look out up there. Then, head on down to the shops and do local galleries, that sort of thing. Grab some lunch and then pop over Little Sprig in Seatoun – that’s a great little spot over there and then Ortega Fish Shack for dinner – I can’t go past it. 

Nick: You’ve got a thing about Ortega Fish Shack – you have got a thing about it haven’t you. 

Danielle: I love it there. It’s great. 

Nick: You always mention it. It’s fantastic, I’m not knocking it. Best restaurant in Wellington, no issue with me on that one.